None of the 3 15/30 i have worked. I can manually push the catch tab in to raise the catch higher. View attachment 25288. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. I ordered 10 mags from brownells after I saw they didn't ride the bolt up. Indeed, if could be too low, and we have a HELL of a thread here on that very issue. :??? I started construction with the lower at 80%. This is. They all functioned fine. One new winner* is announced every week! Coil bind on the spring? Depending on the rear takedown pin you are using either pull the pin (Tacticool pin) or actuate the pin to disengage the receivers (KingPin & Hyperswitch). By I thought it was a nonissue with the gen 3. Anyone else having problems with the 15/30. I dont readily know of a solution to the feed problem but I dont want to alter magazines to compensate for a receiver flaw. I deepened the hole to 0.480. Its Alex C. with TFBTV. What the problem is: The lip on the un-fixed P-mag pushes the mag release/Bolt catch bar up just enough to catch the bolt group, but not enough to stop it. I used a digital caliper depth gauge as shown in the picture. You cannot paste images directly. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. . Try tightening the mag catch an extra turn. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. 3: Magazine feed lips height = 0.446, Fig. Morality is nothing more than expressions of people's personal taste/ Right? By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. It knows when youre cheating..like Santa. Thanks for the reply. We STRONGLY encourage all users to ONLY run premium ammunition through their firearm at all times. The problem is pretty simple, the magazine's follower is failing to raise the bolt catch. But if you're having this problem just take the flat of a knife blade and, holding the blade perpendicular to the magazine body, scrape a little bit of the plastic away until your bolt latch has free travel. My solution is to raise the bottom rear edge of the mag well by approximately 1mm to 1.5mm. After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt 'home'. *, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. Here's a pic of the wear on the bolt catch caused by this: Here's the OEM mag (left) compared to the PMAG (right). NEVER use this product outside the standard method of operation as it will cause the rifle to no longer be in compliance and you risk arrest. If that's what the bolt catch is suppossed to look like then my mags are a lil out of spec when inserted into the lower. I just checked and my BM lower does the same. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. It is tight getting the depth gauge to the lower so the caliper may need to be slightly rotated but not in a direction that will affect the height measurement. What measurements do you have on your lower? The bolt catch problem can be solved by drilling the plunger hole deeper but Id first like to solve the feed problem. For me it's almost all gen 2 P mags. I dont have another LR-308 with which to compare my measurements so I dont know which dimensions are problematic. The follower I wouldn't think should have witness marks on it though. The bolt partially strips a round but doesnt chamber it and just drags over the top of it. Please refer to our installation videos and the instructions on your packaging. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. JavaScript is disabled. I have a DPMS pattern LR-308 under construction that has a failure to feed and fails to catch the bolt on an empty magazine. 4: Clearance to bolt catch is adequate when bolt is fully retracted, Fig. NEW PRICING: All products have been reduced 10%! Lastly, not only are PMAGs more expensive than the alternative, but also heavier. Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isn't present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, I'll test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. Hexmag for 260rem and pmag for 6.5creed. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. Is it the length of the plunger? Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isnt present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. You can post now and register later. Cookie Notice Note here that this PMAG will not insert into this civilian version of the HK-416, due to the odd body geometry. The P-mags always functioned. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. Has anyone seen this? Repeat for the P-mags and note any difference. Open the receivers to the maximum limit of the pin capabilities. Pics to follow. https://www.luth-ar.com/product/buffer-tube-spring-assembly-kit-308/, Bolt catch is from a TacFire .308 AR Lower Parts Kit (not for an AR-15). AR platform is new to me, and I hope I don't upset anyone here because I am a noob when it comes to ARs. Pmags have worked fine in the past. Hope this helps. No need to answer that last question. JavaScript is disabled. Insert the steel DPMS mag and lock the bolt back and look through the ejection port and note how much of the bolt face the bolt catch covers. It's a precaution against folks who like to cause trouble immediately after joining up. Also, we'll be happy to correct or delete anything if you point it out to us in the meantime. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The gun will feed rounds from the PMAGs no problem. Here's a photo showing the mags. The problem is interference between the bottom edge of the rear wall of the mag well and a ridge running horizontally across the PMag spine. I could not find it for a few days so I checked it. I find it interesting that in the "Bolt Catch Issues" section of the article, they mention that if the gun's bolt-catch fails to operate properly, instead of simply checking other mags, their first-line troubleshooting is to check the critical dimensions . So far so good. Mag still wobbles the same and the error still remains. You are using an out of date browser. I actually just noticed this issue on my Colt 6920 with Magpul M2 PMAGS. Note: Firearm will not retain magazines until a replacement magazine catch solution is re-installed. Some rifles are just finicky. Pasted as rich text. We have also seen similar malfunctions in a sandy environment using military spec ammo with a dirty, gummed up weapon. i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. After installation of the ARMagLock the button is. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. UPDATE: After seeing these pictures, I checked my factory mag. Iiiiffffff I owned one of those evil black rifles , I might buy the Hexmag brand when they went on sale for $6.95 ea. Also the follower rides the bolt catch up A LOT. Your previous content has been restored. When the PMAG 20LR is inserted into the magazine well, some MWS rifles exhibit interference between the bolt catch and the rear of the magazine. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Personally I wouldn't shoot it until you've got this issue corrected. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. Of course, this is just my opinion, based on my personal experiences, and your mileage may vary. It isnt that they are bad (in fact they feed and run very well in certain firearms) but in my years of shooting I have simply found that other products may better suit a myriad of shooters. and might have several still in the packaging. It's a whole lot of details. Also if you rest your gun on the mag when you shoot (by the way don't do this) it will shove most mags including FN factory ones. What corresponding dimensions do you have? With the mag catch removed, a mag can be inserted so far into the mag well that the follower moves upward beyond the point where it can lift the bolt catch. Upload or insert images from URL. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Your enemies, with nodding of their plumes, fan you into despair! Magpul needs to tweak their mold a bit before they make the claims they do. edit: i just got them. These two pics right here, and the height difference. Yours is 0.6640" for a difference of 0.028" which isn't as much as I expected based on drawings which is 0.049". New firearms are designed around common Colt-pattern mags, and Magpul has to keep accommodating new designs with generational changes, or new offerings altogether, like they did with the EMAG. Scan this QR code to download the app now. Special thanks to Ventura Munitions for helping us out with the cost of ammo, and a special thank you to you all for watching. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. Seamac, did you have to modify the black polymer on the mag? Paste as plain text instead, Problem: 30 round Pmag follower doesn't catch on the front lip of the bolt catch. This will allow for easy removal of the magazine . While the weight difference may not seem like much to a civilian shooter who packs up his shiny, clean competition rifle into his Pelican case and totes it to and from the range in the family truckster, you hear about things like guys cutting toothbrushes in half to save weight in the military. UPDATE: after tinkering with it, Ive noticed it only happens on 30 round mags. For more information, please see our It was initially 0.323 deep. I have both just to keep ammo separated. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Come join the discussion about optics, modifications, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Maybe it's raising it too much, but a locked bolt is a locked bolt. "And here remain with your uncertainty! PMAGs are pretty notorious for not wanting to work in various platforms, including guns like the HK-416 and M27-IAR. Once bolt was locked to the rear or closed, it would engage the catch and seat properly on the "bad" mag. Sorry, I see the bolt is hitting the follower i could not see that at first.. Not sure if I understand the problem correctly, but I thought the bolt catch is SUPPOSED to ride up on the follower? What changed? The bolt catch on the AR platform is directly in the center of the mag, so the shape of the notch doesn't matter on the AR, but on the SCAR, the bolt catch is offset slightly to the left. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. Also, PMAGs had trouble fitting in firearms like the British SA-80/L-85, and will not fit in the FN FS-2000 without the user modifying the weapon by removing a component that serves to seal the weapon from dirt and debris. I'd delete it if I could. Fig. If so, it would cause both symptoms. I'll try and grab my camera. I sanded the top rib along the back wall of the mag near the feed and the feed itself and problem seems to have resolved. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. I read your post twice, I still don't see the malfunction. Think it could be magazine springs? The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. You'll need to clay the upper, just like you'd do if you were checking an engine for piston-to-valve clearance. For me I had to shave off small pieces of the mag to make the bolt catch itself latch. The table shows the measurements of several magazines and the left or right cartridge. Can anyone offer insight to the cause of or solution to these problems? Fig. Elite Aluminum Products although I dont know who made them. I deepened the hole to 0.480. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. One new winner* is announced every week! If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 6 (not figure 5). The tension on the bolt catch by the BCG helps keep the bolt catch firmly engaged over the rear of the follower of the Pmag. Well, there are several reasons for this. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bolt Catch issues w/ Pmags + few questions, https://www.triggershims.com/ar_15_shims.html. Re: Magpul PMag issues. First and foremost, I will readily acknowledge that PMAGs are a great magazine. The issue is with bolt lock back. I'm pretty sure it's in the 80% Section. the bolt catch tooth begins at the center of the follower then teeters towardthe edge until it drops off. 80% ar-10 bolt jammed m5e1 pmag stuck 1 2 Next Mk3Mstr6Mchne0 Atlington, Washington Messages 12 Reactions 28 Apr 30, 2019 #1 this is kind of hard to explain, I am also pretty experienced with the AR platform, my M5e1 upper is assembled on an 80% lower. #5. To clear, get the bolt to move back by removing the floor plate of the magazine, remove the spring and follower followed by the rounds in the magazine and the 2nd round should drop out. The upper, lower, and jig are from Daytona Tactical d.b.a. It's brand new so it couldn't be anything crazy like the gas block. Note the different rear opening. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. The mags cause the bolt catch to rise ever . Display as a link instead, I have about 15 Amend 2 mags, but that's out of 20 because 5 of them wouldn't drop out of the mag well by themselves. But with firearms, there really is seldom a one size fits all option for, well, anything. /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. As weird as this will sound, you need to measure the length of your recoil buffer, and the internal depth of your buffer tube and post it here in addition to the excellent info already provided. To my knowledge, no PMAGs will work in the FS-2000 to this day without modification. Not a back-breaking amount, mind you, but not insignificant. In total, I (and friends) fired about 1,200 rounds in this review, 1,000 PMC .223 55-grain, about 200 reloads (a mix of 77- and 75-grain), and 20 rounds of Tula steel case at the very end. A friend with a lower that started at 80% also had the same problem as I do and fixed his by shifting his mag catch up 0.050". 6: Bolt catch fully extended = 0.359, Fig. I realized you can fix this by filing or dremeling off some material on the rear of the mag body, or by using whatever generation of magazine they implemented to fix this, or you could just arrive at my next point and save four or five dollars more by purchasing a GI mag. Replace the empty magazine with a new 10 round magazine and let it click into place. Like CPT stated, it's supposed to raise it some and technically it can only go so far before the BCR bottoms out. The bolt catch rides up but not on the black polymer part of the mag, but the follower. Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. That might give a more consistent measurement between yours and mine. Switch the Safety selector to 'Safe'. Really appreciate your thorough pictures provided, that's an excellent way to provide data on your issues. I wish I could edit the original post to correct this. Definitely try another couple magazines, including one from another manufacturer. There were no ammunition-related issues during the review. JWardJune 15, 2020 in Building a .308AR. Either the hole gets deeper, or a couple coils come off the spring, or the tail on the plunger gets shortened. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. Again, kids running with scissors did this to us. Talyn said: Pmag VS Hexmag. Close the receivers back together and re-engage the rear takedown pin. After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt home. The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more forward in the mag body, and the end of the catch tab is not lifted upwards to active the catch. I have a substantial cache of PMAGs, I already performed the PMAG mod by cutting the back of the mag so the bolt catch wont activate. The bolt can still be removed by grinding but will no longer be usable. Then collapse that spring ON the plunger, to coil bind, and measure the OAL of both (with spring in coil bind). Operation of any AR MAGLOCK products outside the standard method of operation or its original intended use may cause non-compliance to laws / regulations, and injury or death. Does your caliper also have a depth gauge that can get the internal depth to the mag catch as in figure 10? and our I'm looking forward to hearing some comments on this. Its best to identify these two common issues with your rifle, before attempting to diagnose problems with your magazines. The BC looks the same so this is a non issue. It may not display this or other websites correctly. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. Today I had some last shot hold open issues while using 20 round P-mags. I am having no problems with Gen 2 or Gen 3 Pmags in a variety of lowers using mil-spec mag and bolt catches, which are also from a variety of suppliers. Just checked all of mine, I'm not sure how HC's ended up with a witness mark where it's at. The main concern is the failure to feed. Some people used a 9mm bolt catch, others shaved out the bolt catch area on the mag itself. . They are not as likely to happen with premium ammo yet the chance is still there. That should fix it. That said, there is a reason that there are generations of these magazines. (not my lower, but my exact problem!) If you could post a pic of that comparison, it would be helpful. I liken this to a person who lives in an urban area with an office job, assuming that nobody needs anything more than a Toyota Camry, while overlooking the fact that some people need things such as towing capacity, off-road capability, or more seats for a larger family. Why not just ditch the PMags? As soon as my wife lifts our household arms embargo, I will have one. Also check out this great, descriptive video as the Gen3 7.62x51 PMag followers have a slightly different contour which can catch the feed lips, and not rise high enough to engage the bolt catch properly on DPMS Gen 2 style bolt catch levers. These same parts are available from other vendors. I'm sure someone here can find that thread on the mag catch heights. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! Thanks for this HC, I'm going to inspect my Gen 3's to see if mine have the same witness marks. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. This clearance is partially determined by the use of aLuth-AR .308 rifle buffer tube, spring, and weight [https://www.luth-ar.com/product/buffer-tube-spring-assembly-kit-308/]. Powered by Invision Community, Problems with failure to feed AND failure to catch bolt. My Colt LE6920 bolt is not locking back when the last round is fired nor when I insert an empty magpul pmag magazine. I thought about a low mag catch (the machining of it) very first, based on your info, but I wanted to know about that mag catch's internal parts first. check out the. It was initially 0.323 deep. Also, since the follower rides too high the pmags I used made a dent in the follower from the bolt. I included a pic of the mag fully inserted, then a mag with the follower pushed down to the point of where the bolt catch stays flat. Correction to original post: If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 6 (not figure 5). P-Mag Follower and Bolt Catch Engagement *Issue Resolved! Similar occurences? Next up is damage to the SCAR. Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. Gonna remove the anodizing, but making omelets requires the breaking of eggs; so. I was curious about how other magazines behaved in the lower so I measured them to simply verify reasonable consistency. 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine release hole = 0.692. Alex is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and Director of TFBTV. All Rights Reserved. So, I marked it and I'm gonna keep running it through to see if it happens anymore. the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. I can manually push the bolt catch tab in to raise the catch higher. Ok, so I have searched the hide and my googlefu is actin a fool like my pmags You must log in or register to reply here. PMAG Problems Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Crap! *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. That one issue, right there, because in the previous pics, that bolt catch isn't sticking up enough to reliably get that bolt face every time. The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more . I just don't know why my friend has witness marks on his pmags after use in my Scar 16s. I recently bought 3 for my acr and when comparing it to the other mags i have for it, it seems the internal part does not come up high enough to lift the bolt catch. I do need to know the correct distance of the top of the mag catch to the top of the lower as in figure 10 by using a depth gauge. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. However, when using the CH to keep the BCG to the rear, the follower can slip past the bolt catch when slammed into the magwell or when jarred or shaken significantly after insertion. Depth of the hole? If someone can answer that, I'd appreciate it. For a while you only had so long to make the edit and then never again. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. This can cause partial engagement of the bolt catch and result in unintentional contact between the bolt carrier group and the bolt catch during normal weapon operation. The edit feature will become available to you with just a few more posts on the forum. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! We are all guilty of doing this, in one way or another. Sounds like the pmag is riding a little high and rubbing the bottom of the carrier a bit. It may not display this or other websites correctly. My fix was with Gen2 pmags. I personally dont see why I would spend an extra five bucks for magazines that wont drop free in all my guns, may or may not be compatible with new and upcoming guns, and my next point: wont fit in all my guns. New production Colt-pattern U.S. GI mags are four to five dollars cheaper than generation three PMAGs. The cause could be one of the following: Bolt catch assembly is too far away from the back of magazine well Finger on bolt catch is too short Slight slop (looseness) on magazine, or magazine faceplate This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole = 0.692. At the moment just keep posting as usual, the edit feature will become available. A: Some states require the compliance solution be made permanent. Clear editor. Professional. I had that issue with a couple Lancer mags, ended up replacing that bolt catch when it broke with a Sig 716 bolt catch and now the one Lancer mag I saved that had the issue works in that rifle. It did. Hey, everyone. Thanks shooterrex. NEVER attempt to cycle the bolt carrier group (manually or otherwise) or fire a round with the action open (receivers separated), as this may cause serious injury or death AND potentially make your rifle non-compliant with laws and regulations! Because of the cost difference, weight, compatibility issues, and not dropping free in many platforms, Ill stick with what I know works. A new one can be sent upon request. IMHO, I would get a USGI / high / known quality bolt catch and try one of those. /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. Very carefully and pay attention to how the bolt catch actually works, if you did you should figured it out almost immediately.