- paragraph added at 20:21 + amended at 20:23, 19 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.214.74, - section created at 15:12, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124. I've compiled some thoughts that I've placed under yours that I've read from reports of the accidents, both FAA and ICAO. Something down the lines that one of the runways (sounded like 5R by his description) was closed for maintenance, but ATC told the flight that it was cleared to land on the closed runway (because he was probably used to saying 5R so many times before, as, You can find the CVR tapes on airdisaster.com. Reichel probably didn't call out altitude, but we do not know this for sure. Wikipedia:WikiProject Disaster management, "In continuing toward 23L below [decision height, 600ft aal], by definition the crew was deviating from their cleared approach", "stayed on the correct flight path to Runway 23 Right for most of the time between the outer marker "Metro Eco" and [the] Airport, and only deviated to the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) when at a height of (600 feet) above the ground during .. final approach", https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a205115.pdf, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Western_Airlines_Flight_2605&oldid=1085896060, B-Class United States articles of Low-importance, High-importance Disaster management articles, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0. Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners The nose gear did not contact The following excerpt discusses flight 2605 as well as three other accidents that for purposes here aren't identified. This is his recollection which conflicts with two reports. The challenge is being able to discriminate and select what else could be added. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. Even sadder is the fact that all four of those major air Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder). Don't have the report but the FAA provides this summary of the investigation: See the following URL for info. LAST WORDS SAIF BY FIRST OFFICER: BRACE CHARLES! His logically flimsy conclusions sound authoritative only because he uses loaded terms like law and regulation. the flight path in reaction to the unstable localizer course." Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. This page was generated at 03:03. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westernes_Flight_2605, http://aviation-safety.net/database/?id=19791031-0, http://books.google.com/books?id=8BVpage&q&f=false, http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fod.main/130485/, http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/program.pl?ID=57025, http://web.archive.org/web/200910220/blackbox.html, http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/-tapes-cd.html, http://www.taxiways.de/DC-10/accident/N903WA.html, If this is your first visit, be sure to ", "The assignment of responsibility, upon which law and regulation depend, requires that the buck stop sooner rather than later. Because as with the case of this accident, there really wasnt any wrong with the plane. 296 68 68 comments Best Add a Comment [deleted] 9 yr. ago [removed] cheekske 9 yr. ago The scream at 1:13 is what gets me 16 XxmsmaliciousxX 9 yr. ago That was terrifying and haunting. Privacy Policy. so they thought they were flying their cleared approach? No matter how cut throat, abusive, tyrannical or destructive corporations and finance would be to other aspects of flying the public had to be told the Government would never ever compromise on safety. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. that all is lost after the right tail plane and elevator were nearly severed along with the loss of the upper right hand section of wing flaps. Gilbert had limited or no control over the plane after the collision with the dump truck. or profound horror - perhaps with a terrible awareness of the fate of the plane. Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.156.105 (talk) 22:49, 11 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], Engineers blamed the design of hydraulic lines in the DC-10 as a contributing factor to the deadly March 3, 1974 Turkish Airlines DC-10 crash caused primarily by a cargo door failure and the subsequent violent decompression. crew was fatigued from flying all night, landing at 0542." Quote copyedited at 21:28, 4 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.11.230: All of these accidents had some common human factors involvement. Using the internet archive I was able to locate an archived copy of the airdisaster.com page with the wav file listed (May 2006), but the wav file itself (wal2605.wav) had not been archived. It is like this crash never happened. We'll never know because of the damage to the CVR: "The possibility exists that the callouts were made but erased in that portion of the CVR tape; however, it is highly unlikely that this was accomplished. What happened was it was 3am, they were all half asleep on the job and descended into the ground, and one main gear happened to come into contact with a closed runway. " 7 years ago (WARNING, DISTURBING) Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. I'd like to reply to yours as well. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. In less than 10 years Western Airlines would no longer exist. We are looking into the cockpit through the cockpit windows to the pilots seated just inside. Privacy Policy. He discredits ALPAs conclusions. Is this necessary? His flight manager had promised to By clicking "I AGREE" below, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our personal data processing and cookie practices as described therein. how about the poor general aviation pilot, what chance Actress Carole Lombard won a coin toss against her mother and Clark Gable's press agent Otto Winkler when deciding whether they would fly or go by train back to LA. A few years later the public would be told an Air Florida 737 that crashed into a DC bridge was mostly because the pilots weren't from "the North". By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Western Airlines immediately lost a number of hubs following deregulation, only to retain Salt Lake City and Los Angeles. For more information, please see our - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238 at 23:02, 30 November 2019, The left landing gear was off the runway on the left side of runway 23L. https://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/09/16/DC-10-fleet-to-undergo-hydraulic-system-changes, https://www.designnews.com/aerospace/designed-disaster-dc-10-airliner-part-4, https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1979/08/04/engineer-balks-at-changes-in-critical-dc10-systems, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_DC-10, https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a205115.pdf Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.153.142.87 (talk) 00:18, 18 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air Perhaps they were sloppily dressed? As Flight 2605 approached Mexico City International Airport, air traffic controllers cleared it for an instrument approach using the ILS of Runway 23L, with an expected landing runway of 23R. At that point, the right main gear lifted off the By using the words well known problem, this means historically in the time period of the accident, but also today in 2020, especially when not hand flying in planes more advanced and more automated than the DC-10-10 that Gilbert was hand flying in 1979. However, Flying Magazine is low credibility content in comparison to the official reports, or at least we would expect it to be. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, 20 minutes before the accident a 727 from Mexicana airlines landed normally on 23R using the "same procedure which the Western aircraft was instructed to follow". with his crew that he had requested several times to have "More than 2g" presumably doesn't mean 3g or 4g so this is not wildly abnormal and more importantly would not cause damage to the aircraft. USER_MINI_PROFILE. Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews By logging into your account, you agree to our. Quoting . TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! The DC-10 included no cable backup for the hydraulic-powered flight controls because it was considered nearly impossible for three hydraulic systems to fail during one flight. The Originals Boutique, Htel Les Trois Roses, Grenoble Meyla. Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder) Vintage news cast with low volume CVR but informational at beginning Louder CVR with no introduction LAST WORDS SAID BY CAPTAIN: JESUS CHRIST! Those locks prevent an unbalanced aerodynamic condition in which one wing has more lift than the other. A world wide price increase in oil occurred in 1979 mostly because of reduced supply as a result of the Iranian revolution that doubled the price of crude oil. A friend of the Western Airlines DC-I0 captain had More curious is the fact that Gilbert had just written up Reichel and had a meeting with him the day of the flight although that was said to have been amicably concluded. The sound and tone of his exclamation is one of complete shock. ed the knowledge to deal with the human aspect identified these human factors were identified by the investigation Still, the accident is considered pilot error, not ILS error but there are other examples. The May 25, 1979 American Airlines DC-10 crash involved the separation of the left engine from the left wing and the shredding of hydraulic lines with it. long work days or from shift changes. Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:186:4500:26FF:C1E0:69E9:B72B:2DC8 (talk) 01:08, 3 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply], 'Your other left stupid.' There is no official report that we know of that gives any credence to this rumor. Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft, Special Paint Schemes Readers are encouraged to actually read the article for themselves and decide whether Peter Garrison is convincing or a presumptuous story teller. Report. Page contents not supported in other languages. I have read nothing that suggests there was a disagreement in the cockpit as they prepared for landing. The most comprehensive description and analysis by far is in the December 1983 issue of Flying magazine pages 100 to 107. Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships The single weather condition noted most often with flight 2605 is heavy fog. Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . Cockpit crew coordina Its a plane which certainly has a divided history. Still, Western Airlines Flight 2605 contributed to that long list of accidents on October 31st, 1979.Sources:http://docplayer.net/docview/24/2551935/#file=/storage/24/2551935/2551935.pdfhttps://www.baaa-acro.com/sites/default/files/2019-10/N903WA.pdfhttps://tailstrike.com/media/4sml0qsq/311079.pdfhttps://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19791031-0https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8BVI6sNpT4wC\u0026pg=PA100\u0026redir_esc=y#v=onepage\u0026q\u0026f=falsehttps://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-douglas-dc-10-10-mexico-city-73-killedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0xxYamy39s\u0026t=71s\u0026ab_channel=TheFlightChannelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z1G31Ik2no\u0026ab_channel=DisasterOnlinehttps://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-douglas-dc-10-10-mexico-city-73-killed Moreover the description of the plane "hitting hard" at 2 g of force is a poor description. This contributor has read transcripts that start at and include the first signifigant contacts in Mexican airspace but I do not have access to the entire CVR which presumably is near 3 hours in length. Do we know this is correct? Wow!! On October 31, 1979, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10,. Apparently the official transcript is not quite correct so I'll put my interpretation in the captions. On the other. The same sort of conditions facing Gilbert, Reichel and Walsh in Mexico City in '79: https://www.airlinereporter.com/2015/09/requiem-trijet-masterpiece-lockheed-l-1011-tristar/tristar-can-land-itself/, - section created at 21:25, 4 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.11.230, George B. Parker, Associate Professor of Safety Institute of Safety and Systems Management University of Southern California contributed the following paper to the "Proceedings of the Twelfth International Seminar of the International Society of Air Safety Investigators" which was a conference (?) Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.246.108 (talk) 22:08, 25 December 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created at 22:37, 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130. Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. to heavy construction in progress, which may have induced the Captain to vary The reason he feels this way was because of the potential for damaging political and economic fallout. I'd like to reply to yours as well. Might be good to add that detail. The sites we usually use for research won't say more than the above. This is all over youtube for example in a number of videos. Pilot fatigue has also been mentioned. The inducement of the Ironically this hearsay reaches the same conclusion: the pilots were to blame. Information wanted on Western Airlines flight 2605. I had to read it again to make clear they were to the left of 23L also!! Walsh's preparedness was unknown. that he owned a T-6 and flew for fun, made such a mistake? Other entries are my opinions as well. Pilot Gilbert got on the power (100%) before the impact with the truck and after Reichel calmly called to go around after everyone agreed they were at 23L. mined by the investigation board. As an example, there is an immediate inconsistencies about what the tower is told the crew about approach lights and the ICAO report on the condition of those lights.[/quote]. LAST WORDS ON FLIGHT: BRACE CHARLES! Flight 2605's "hydraulic systems" - as far as this contributor is aware - are not discussed in any crash analysis or publication. [9] . 68 people died in that crash. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. "I saw a witch, a werewolf and a goblin" - Valenciana describing what he saw after climbing out of the mangled wreckage of a DC-10 in 1979. Western Airlines 2605 | CVR Redux 31 views Aug 23, 2022 Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles,. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQWYdByNSg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DlBRS0PiE. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. Whether or not this reputation was warranted is up for debate. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. Key details are the same: 23L was closed, 23R was the open runway with a NOTAM many days before. Was it likely that they didn't have the resources to take safety in to account? Les rgles de l'aviation de base dcouragent de longues priodes de dur tirer vers le haut. right for a mistake and an accident. But then, with fog-banks etc giving them problems, visual contact was with 23L but not 23R; they reckoned they had slightly overdone the lateral separation and moved left to correct it, and so lined up with 23L . give him a different crew if he would fly this one last flight the ground at any time. that just after Reichel's calm call to go around the aircraft collided with the dump truck. A key result of the engine detachment and hydraulic failure was the atypical slat retraction of the DC-10 in these circumstances. - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80. explain how a 31,500 hour pilot, who liked to fly so much and our Our guests praise the breakfast and the helpful staff in . Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft Norton Air Force Base, this time period typifies the normal reaction time of On October 31, 1979, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, crashed at Mexico City's Benito Juarez International Airport in early morning fog after landing on a runway closed for maintenance. The most common CVR excerpt begins at landing on 23L where Gilbert is asking if "we're clear on the right?". By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. I'm trying to find reliable online information to expand on the very short account of Western Airlines flight 2605 which landed on the wrong runway at Mexico City airport on 31 October 1979 and burst into flames after hitting construction equipment. The scenario adds up to a sequence of events that is just Here's an author who unconvincingly defines ALPA's purpose. Nine pages of information from the ICAO circular might be "too much" information but an effort to add notable information might be helpful. percent. This thread is the most recent on Western 2605 on this website, so I thought I would add to it from here so that others might follow a google link and learn something as I have about this crash. The CVR is described as sustaining damage in this report, DOT/FAA/PM-86/46 "Aeronautical Decision Making -Cockpit Resource Management": "The voice recorder was recovered from the wreckage; however, the unit had been pierced. done flyin'." NASA setting the pace, maybe there is hope for a change on *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. then realised rather late tht they were now on the ILS path so this must be 23L - wrong runway - and they better go around. Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. after the truck collision. Encore moins cher pour les -26 ans. With a fogbank unluckily placed they would not see 23R; and this is at night, so they likely wouldnt see the fogbank itself either. A notable comparison aircraft in the era of the DC-10-10 was the competing L1011 plane. Most reports I've read seem to state that Pilot Gilbert saw the truck. Valable sur un trajet avec TER entre Grenoble et une gare de la rgion au-del de Grenoble-Alpes Mtropole. The final moments of the pilots will make your hair stand on end. This video also went out to my Patrons on Patreon 48 hours before going out publicly. The ICAO report does not mention the ILS as any possible contributor. In that accident investigators warned of the danger of trusting ILS signals without checking raw height/distance data. I replied to one post below that had the time of day wrong concerning the accident. The CVR has been widely available for years. Maybe if the pilot saw obstructions ahead. Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters for about 400 feet on the main landing gear. CVR of Western Airlines 2605, terrifying. These recordings always give me the heebie-jeebies. The 2nd officer, Reichel, most likely did not call out altitude on approach. Western 2605 was a crash in Mexico City that killed 72 people. I don't know what the comment above means when it says the CVR contained "the required information." - section created at 20:35, 1 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.9.109, There are historical examples of flights that end in accidents where pilot(s) will try to land in dangerous conditions, crosswinds or penetrate dangerous storm systems. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.230 (talk) 21:25, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Is it not discussed in the reliable sources? Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks (American Airlines 1420) Pilots exhibited more recklessness if they fell behind schedule especially if landing at night and other aircraft landed successfully before them. This is blather with ludicrous speculation. This is incorrect information from the control tower at Mexico City (assuming the ICAO circular Section 1.8.2 is accurate). You can also try to find a copy of David Grayson '"Terror in the Skies", published by W.H.Allen (London, England, 1989), which has a chapter dealing with that particular accident. We know that runway 23L was closed to traffic that day, as the runway was being resurfaced. The Spanish language page is similar to the English version. According to the research done by Dr. Zeller and McNorton, at the on it, except than the official one. $73. Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles to Mexico City. For more information, please see our Gilbert too was questionable, spending part of the time prior to the flight flying long distance in a private aircraft before getting some sleep. Discover your dream home among our modern houses, penthouses and. The Douglas DC10, even before 1979 suffered multiple hull loses and even for a time, held the accolade of being the aircraft involved in the deadliest air disaster to have occurred at that time. RE: Western 2605 In MEX - New Pics #8819177 BY thegoldenargosy - Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:22 am One of the flight attendants survived and is still flying for DL in SLC. check out the. The plane just went all the way through to the closed runway. - paragraph amended at 21:05, 30 December by 173.120.131.243 and 00:00, 31 December 2019 by 173.120.182.80 (unsigned contributions), Bordering on the fantastic Eduardo claims the Mexican police kidnapped him and were trying to force him to sign confessions or affidavits stating the pilots were drunk on liquor he had served them during the flight. American Eagle flight 4184, an ATR 72 flying from IND to ORD, crashed in Northern Indiana on October 31, 1994, which was 25 years ago yesterday. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, Gilbert probably knows (his hands on the yoke?) control. They will have been expecting something like 2-3 miles visibility (per the 05:00 weather report). I can't remember where I read the article, but it was very interesting. I recall hearing the CVR on this one years ago, a difficult one in its last monent, still huants me to this day, very sad.
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